Who uses mid grade?

"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove) 11/01/2016 at 12:54 • Filed to: fuel choice

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Everyone talks about whether they should use regular or premium fuel, but most stations have 87, 89, and 91 octane options. Does anyone here choose the mid grade, and if so, why? Do you see it as a compromise between value and performance? Something else?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 12:56

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I never understood it either. At the 7-11s in Florida, they had five grades.

TysMagic > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/01/2016 at 12:57

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what? why? who does this?! I guess Florida should never surprise with their tactics

For Sweden > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 12:59

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You choose mid-grade if your car recommends mid-grade

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 12:59

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Yeah it’s odd, not sure if any cars specify that grade? I use regular for my CRV because it says to and because I know it would make no difference in that vehicle. I use premium in my Z because it’s triple carbed and I use the highest I can get.

LongbowMkII > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:01

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My location is 93/89/87 with equal pricing between.

Makes no sense.

Speed > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:01

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I run premium in my LS1 because it’s tuned for it and drops to the lower timing tables on regular. I have put mid grade in on very rare occasions, but never regular. BTW when the fuck did premium become like 70 cents more expensive than regular!?

In a car tuned for regular, like my ex’s Rav4, anything above it is a waste of money.

My brother’s Grand Marquis, which stock is tuned for regular, runs like shit after the CAI, PI intake swap, H-pipe and catback. It has shown detonation on 87 octane, but runs fine on premium. I guess the A/F ratio changed enough to make a difference.

In closing, run what your car is tuned for.

Kanaric > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:02

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Some cars need mid grade. I think some Jeeps do for example.

Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:04

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Living in a “big corn” state, here, the midgrade is often an ethanol blend, and actually cheaper than the non-ethanol 87 octane. And, since I currently drive a 2005 rental spec Ford Focus and thus DGAF, I buy the cheapest.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:05

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Me.

First because I noticed mileage benefits, a little engine spec research confirmed the possibility, and then I got tuned on 89 so I keep running it now.

smobgirl > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:06

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I know some folks out here do because they don’t want to use 85 (our regular).

Mercedes Streeter > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:07

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I only ever choose mid if the station I’m at is either out of Premium or just doesn’t have Premium.

Also, big middle finger to Nebraska...Unleaded fuel isn’t “Premium” just because you put 10% ethanol in it. It’s still 87 octane!

Textured Soy Protein > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:07

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When I had my old Hemi Grand Cherokee, it was supposedly “recommended” to run mid-grade but not required. Premium was unnecessary. I did get a 1-2 mpg better with mid-grade but with how much more it costs over regular (most stations are charging a good $0.40/gal more at this point) it was still more expensive than running regular.

jasmits > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:09

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I use 89 in my 318ti because that’s what’s recommended for the M44 engine

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Kanaric 11/01/2016 at 13:09

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I’ve never seen mid-grade being recommended as much as I’ve seen it being listed as the minimum because you can’t get 93 in Cali.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer 11/01/2016 at 13:11

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Everything’s ethanol blend in America. Ethanol-free is generally only legally allowed for non-car applications and (depending on the state) antique cars. It’s still generally available at a regular pump, but it’s pretty rare and only at a few stations. I have to go out of my way to get it for my old car.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > For Sweden 11/01/2016 at 13:11

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Does it ever recommend that or does it say that’s the minimum because 91's the highest you can get in Cali?

Chariotoflove > For Sweden 11/01/2016 at 13:12

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Never seen a car recommended for mid grade, but it seems like some posters are saying some Jeeps are. Learned something new. That’s why I wrote this post.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:12

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I usually stick mid-grade in the W124 Benz 4matic (90s model) that my dad has if I’m using it for something. It’s theoretically supposed to do premium (I think), but it’s not forced induction and I don’t see any reason to be crazy.

Chariotoflove > Kanaric 11/01/2016 at 13:12

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Didn’t know that.

Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/01/2016 at 13:13

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Varies by state, I think. Iowa pumps specifically say “up to X% ethanol” or “No Ethanol”.

Chariotoflove > Speed 11/01/2016 at 13:14

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I run regular, even though my car recommends premium. It leaves me down a bit on power, but it’s an acceptable compromise for the huge savings.

For Sweden > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/01/2016 at 13:14

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I have not memorized the owner manual for every car, so I don’t know.

Chariotoflove > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 11/01/2016 at 13:15

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So it’s a value compromise. Makes sense.

Chariotoflove > smobgirl 11/01/2016 at 13:15

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That does seem kind of low.

Chariotoflove > LongbowMkII 11/01/2016 at 13:16

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Same price for all three? Never seen that.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:16

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I do because I do actually get better MPG and performance in my truck. It’s an 06 with the hemi and it recommends 89. I don’t notice any increase going to 92 or 93, but from 87 to 89 I get about a half an MPG, and at 14MPG, that means something.

Chariotoflove > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/01/2016 at 13:17

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Okay, so it’a a value/performance compromise. Sure.

Nibbles > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:17

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High altitude gas. Our 85 is functionally the same as 87 at lower elevation

cbell04 > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:19

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I had a boat with a volvo motor that recommended it. I think most boat motors actually recommend it but I could be wrong.

Chariotoflove > Nibbles 11/01/2016 at 13:19

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Ah, okay. Now I get it.

Nibbles > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:19

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The S40 gets 91 every time. The Dakota gets 85 during normal production; when we get switched to “winter blend” I move up to 87 - the truck for some reason hates that winter shit and will knock and ping to high hell if I run it on winter 85.

(We get 85/87/91 here in Colorado)

Bourbon&JellyBeans > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:20

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I did 89 in my car once (only requires 87) for shits and gigs. Noticed no improved mileage or any change in power (not that I’d expect any) so I never did again.

interstate366, now In The Industry > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:20

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Sometimes I run it in my lower-compression cars. My 5th gen requires 93.

Xyl0c41n3 > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:21

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Our mid-grade here in Texas is 91. It goes 87, 91, 93. My car recommends 87, so that’s what I use. Yay, econobox! :)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:22

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It’s had people running 87 and/or 89 in it for well over a hundred thousand miles, I believe - possibly closer to two hundred of its near three hundred thousand. There’s operating according to design spec, and then there’s “what’s the point?” I figure it’s worth a few cents, but let’s not get crazy.

Wobbles the Mind > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:22

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I do on the 3.5L Amanti when midgrade is actually 89 octane up here. Cant run regular at 5,000 ft above sea without misfiring but 89 at elevation is no issue for the Premium only recommended engine. I haven’t tried it on the 5.0 XF.

hike > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:23

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I use mid-grade because for some odd reason it’s what my car asks for.

hike > Kanaric 11/01/2016 at 13:25

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Hemi’s ask for it. Well at least the Charger/Challenger with a Hemi.

Mercedes Streeter > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:25

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Technically speaking, Tucker requires “premium” but the octane number is listed as 91. The car can also take 87 too if one is willing to take a MPG deficit.

itschrome > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:25

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In the caddy I would if i was short on cash. Pre 2000 were premium only post 2000 it was recommended but not required. they run best on 91 or higher. 87 makes them sound chatty and you can feel the difference and notice less MPG. but other wise no. I tried in my impala but it didnt make a change so I stick with 87.

Stapleface > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:26

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I have used it on a few different occasions. When I had my E30 318 it was strongly recommended to use 89 or higher. Supposedly lower than 89 could cause premature detonation, which could damage things because it had an aluminum engine.

On some other real POS’s I’ve owned I used 89 to prevent dieseling. For whatever reason the higher octane seemed to drastically reduce the problem.

Mercedes Streeter > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/01/2016 at 13:27

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There are people doing that with smarts too. MB says put no less than 91...but there are plenty high mileage members who have never ever put more than 87 in the car.

bhtooefr > Nibbles 11/01/2016 at 13:30

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If your engine doesn’t have variable valve timing (it may run more advance at higher altitude to compensate, especially if it’s Atkinsonized normally) or forced induction (it may run more boost at higher altitude to normalize things some).

If it does, stick with the recommended octane at altitude.

bhtooefr > LongbowMkII 11/01/2016 at 13:31

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So, like, $0.20 more for 89, then $0.20 more for 93? So if you want 89, manually splash blending the 87 and the 93 in two transactions is cheaper?

That’s... actually fairly common where I am, come to think of it.

LongbowMkII > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:32

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Oh no. 20-50 cents between each.

Chariotoflove > Xyl0c41n3 11/01/2016 at 13:32

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Hmmm, I’m in Dallas. I just filled up at the 7-Eleven this morning at a pump that has 87/89/91. Maybe it’s a variable thing depending on the vendor or region?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > bhtooefr 11/01/2016 at 13:33

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sounds super scientific lol

Chariotoflove > LongbowMkII 11/01/2016 at 13:34

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Okay, makes more sense.

Chariotoflove > Mercedes Streeter 11/01/2016 at 13:34

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I take a hit on power, but not on mpg.

jasmits > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:34

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Recommended for BMW M44! Source: I own one

Chariotoflove > jasmits 11/01/2016 at 13:35

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I learned something new. Cool.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:36

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Doesnt your gas mileage end up lowering enough to make up the cost difference though? I have found that the price differential is at most 40-50 cents (and as low as 20 cents in California). Depends on tank size for how much of a dent that makes but for me, running regular would save about $5 but the drop in mileage can easily eat up that savings. The diference of power is just an added bonus.

Speed > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:40

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I’m hard on cars and drive very enthusiastically. I just suck it up and pay the piper. When I get another daily it will be something that loves 87. What do you drive?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Mercedes Streeter 11/01/2016 at 13:40

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I don’t think there’s anything too too special about the M103 six - it’s got like 9.3:1 compression, electronic injection - nothing really to ruin by running low octane, but I’m pretty sure it runs a little better on a little better fuel, so that’s what I do.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:41

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I had to put 89 in my Miata once because the gas station in Vermont only had 87 and 89. I just didn’t drive it very hard on that gas tank since I didn’t want any engine knocking. Sure the car can detune its self thanks to the VVT but I dont exactly have too many spare horsepower to lose lol. Otherwise I have always put in 92/93, whichever is available as premium.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer 11/01/2016 at 13:42

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No, it’s federal. Everything for road use is a minimum of a 2% blend by law, but the federal government also started requiring in 2005 with the Renewable Fuel Standard that the volume of ethanol used it high enough that it’s impossible to really keep it that low unless the volume of fuel sold increases dramatically, pushing the actual use volume closer to 10% and then the local laws put an exclamation mark on that by having so many states requiring 10% that it’s not economically feasible to go lower than that for other markets. You might be seeing more ethanol free options there because of the prevalence of farm equipment, but it would also be specifying that it’s not for road use or only allowed for recreational use.

Xyl0c41n3 > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:42

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Mayhaps.

Chariotoflove > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 11/01/2016 at 13:47

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Nah, I’m down on power but not mpg, and that makes sense when I read up on anti-knock tech in modern engines. When I jump to premium for the fun of it, it get the same gas mileage but noticeably more power.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:47

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I’m on the east coast. Almost every pump here is 87/89/93.

5 cars in the stable. 2 heavily modified. 93 for those, 93 for the Dodge (91 recommend), 87 in the other 2....

E92M3 > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:47

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I always thought it was cars that take regular, but have been poorly maintained, and ping on 87 but not mid grade.

Chariotoflove > Speed 11/01/2016 at 13:49

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Makes sense to me. You should enjoy something that takes so much of your income. I drive an RX-8; so great mpg isn’t really a part of my life no matter what.

Chariotoflove > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 11/01/2016 at 13:50

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So did you suffer on that tank?

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:51

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My dads gold wing recommends 89.

Chariotoflove > E92M3 11/01/2016 at 13:52

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I think that’s more true with older cars. From what I read on modern engines, the anti-knock sensors kick in to prevent it on lower grades, but you’ll get less power per stroke.

E92M3 > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 13:55

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I think I’ll stick with premium for the better detergents and additives. Though if you don’t plan to keep a car past 200k miles, it’s probably a waste of money.

Chariotoflove > E92M3 11/01/2016 at 13:59

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I’ve never been sure whether those additives do anything tangible or are just marketing.

for Michigan > E92M3 11/01/2016 at 14:01

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The 96 Econoline (5.4 I think?) my family had way back when ran terribly on regular but fine on mid-grade, probably because it wasn’t properly maintained.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:05

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My car says right on the fuel cap that 89 is recommended. It’s a high compression engine (10.2:1) so it probably has to pull timing if I put in 87.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:09

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FWIW, I’ve audited a bunch of gas stations, and “mid-grade” doesn’t exist from their suppliers. Their pumps just mix regular and premium.

404 - User No Longer Available > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:10

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My 328i has a sticker says it’s actually minimum 89, not 91. I tried one tank, didn’t notice much difference, but I’m not even halfway through that tank and it’s now in storage. Will get it back this week so maybe I’ll notice a difference.

Speed > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:17

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Oooooooooh rotary! So much respect right now.

cluelessk > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:18

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My car is designed to run on 91. But is capable of running lower grades just fine. I’ve often run 87 in the Winter because my mileage is already bad and I’m not looking for tons of performance with a fwd turbo coupe on snow and ice. Plus a huge amount of fuel is wasted warming up/ idling on -40 degree days.

I don’t know if it made a huge difference on mileage being that driving conditions and idle times were never identical. I was just a broke ass commuting 180mi a day to school.

Never once ran mid grade though.

cluelessk > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:22

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Probably. Some stations locally max out at 91 no ethanol, 91 with up to E10, 93 and 94 with E10. No E85 though.

shop-teacher > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:26

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My first car required 89 octane minimum, so that’s what I used. There’s zero benefit to using a higher octane that your car is required to use.

Kanaric > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/01/2016 at 14:31

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Can’t get 93 here either. However it’s 91 and mid grade is 89.

91 is considered to be “premium” here. It keeps down all cars sold in the US because they are all made to run on “premium” like that.

Roundbadge > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 11/01/2016 at 14:33

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This is surprising to me.

I ran my car for a full year on premium, tracking MPGs on every tank. I had an app on my phone that kept the running total of miles driven and gallons pumped (GasBook...a shame that one didn’t keep going). After one year’s time, the average MPG over the full year was literally no different than the average MPG before switching to premium.

I only use 87 octane now.

Edit:

and then I got tuned on 89

Makes more sense now.

Nibbles > bhtooefr 11/01/2016 at 14:38

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At altitude, because of the rarified air, 87 octane performs more like 89. Less atmosphere, less compression. It’s also why vehicles produce less power up here :)

God forbid I had to use the recommended fuel; I’d never be able to drive my Volvo. It states 91 octane in the book. I have to drive about 300 miles to get to a station that sells 91

ETA: 91. I meant 91.

Roundbadge > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 11/01/2016 at 14:39

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I replied with this to Smallbear already, but:

I tracked MPG for my car for a full year while only filling with premium. At the end of the year, there was literally NO difference in MPGs over a 365-day term between using 91 octane and 87 octane. I only use 87 now.

In a car that’s tuned to use higher octane, it makes sense...and I’m sure there might be an MPG difference. For something that doesn’t specifically say it needs higher octane, using anything more is a waste.

Land_Yacht_225 > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:41

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I always used mid-grade in my Lincoln and my Buick. And that was just because they seemed to be mid-level cars performance wise. The Continental was a DOHC InTech V8 and the Buick had a supercharged 3800. Neither of which outright needed premium but also weren’t basic econoboxes that were really designed for 87.

Chariotoflove > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 11/01/2016 at 14:41

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Lovely.

bhtooefr > Nibbles 11/01/2016 at 14:41

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Right, but VVT and forced induction can both counter that.

In Atkinsonized engines, VVT can run more advance than normal, which will maintain air pressure in the cylinder similar to lower altitude. In turbocharged engines, moar turbo is possible at altitude to make up for it.

Chariotoflove > Speed 11/01/2016 at 14:42

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Chariotoflove > cluelessk 11/01/2016 at 14:44

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Yeah, for regular commuting, I can’t see the point in paying the premium.

Chariotoflove > cluelessk 11/01/2016 at 14:45

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There are some stations around here with E85. My neighbor has a flex fuel car and has tried it, but the mpg/price is different, and she can’t get used to it.

Chariotoflove > shop-teacher 11/01/2016 at 14:46

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yep.

BigBlock440 > Mercedes Streeter 11/01/2016 at 14:49

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Also, big middle finger to Nebraska...Unleaded fuel isn’t “Premium” just because you put 10% ethanol in it. It’s still 87 octane!

Unless you’re saying that Nebraska calls their 87 “premium”, yes it does. Ethanol is 113 octane, and is how most octane ratings are achieved, even 87. If you start with 87 octane straight gas and mix in ethanol to make E10, you’d wind up with 89.6 octane, or I guess mid-grade.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:51

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I didnt have enough data to really test it out. For my car, I just go from the forums that say gas mileage will suffer. I refuse to ignore the “Recommend 91 minimum octane” written on the gas tank and owners manual anyways. So it is all anecdotal evidence to me, which is why I was curious how it affects others who have tested it.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 11/01/2016 at 14:53

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Hence why at Costco you only get two choices, regular and premium.

punkgoose17 > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 14:57

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89 octane is recommended for the MOPAR 5.7 and 6.4 L hemi engines.

Mercedes Streeter > BigBlock440 11/01/2016 at 15:03

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Sorry for the confusion, Nebraska does sell their 87 octane fuel in two grades, one has 10% ethanol like we have in Illinois, one doesn’t have any ethanol...no true mid-grade or premium...just two flavours of 87. lol

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Roundbadge 11/01/2016 at 15:11

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Oh of course, makes zero sense to use gas the engine wasnt designed for. I do find it interesting though that regardless of Octane, I have found difference in gas from various stations. Like Costco gas has repeatedly shown to give lower gas mileage. And I find that Sunnoco 93 will give a better feeling car than like Quick Check 93 or other “discount” places.

And im still unsure about summer/winter gas.

Roundbadge > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 11/01/2016 at 15:16

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Regarding vendor...you’re probably correct. I can’t say I ever noticed a difference in any tank from a particular seller, but I don’t tend to go to Sam’s/Costco/BJ’s for gas either.

Jayhawk Jake > shop-teacher 11/01/2016 at 15:19

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Not necessarily true. My car only ‘requires’ 87 but it is well known that the reported horsepower figures are for 93 octane. I don’t get 93 anywhere near me, but I fill up with 91

Tatanko > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 15:27

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I used to run 89 octane in my 2010 Accord Coupe V6 6-speed when I had it. There was benefit to running greater than 87, but not 91+ so I went mid-grade.

shop-teacher > Jayhawk Jake 11/01/2016 at 15:32

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I should’ve clarified. Some new cars, like your Boostang, can tune themselves up to a higher horsepower level based on information from the knock sensor. This is a pretty new phenomenon. Your average car is simply tuned for XX octane fuel. There is no performance benefit from putting higher octane fuel in your average vehicle that’s simply tuned for one octane.

gmctavish needs more space > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 16:09

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I run 87 in the Legacy, it seems perfectly happy with it, but whenever I’ve had an old BMW I always ran 91 at the least, preferably Chevron 94. I’ve never run mid grade in anything though, maybe I’ll try it in the Subaru and see if it makes any difference

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Roundbadge 11/01/2016 at 16:10

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Same to me. That said... that was MPG gain from driving the same on 89 as on 87, and it seemed to run a little nicer. There was a small (quite) performance boost,and as soon as I took advantage of it I lost the MPG. That said, I’m willing to trade a little cash for a little power. I found 91 made no extra difference.

And yeah, of course the tune sealed it. This guy was most of the reason I tried 89 in the first place, because a truck identical to mine had a ton of knock retard on 87 when he tuned it.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 11/01/2016 at 16:14

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I run 89 in the summer. Higher octane rating basically just means the fuel/air mix can be heated/compressed more before it auto-ignites. It probably makes no difference, but it makes me feel better when it is 110 degrees out that I have a little more resistance against knock from an already hot air charge.

Chariotoflove > punkgoose17 11/01/2016 at 16:19

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Hmm. I wonder if those engines really care about the two extra or not?

Chariotoflove > Tatanko 11/01/2016 at 16:21

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Empirical evidence beats recommendations any day.